Episode 18 On The Business of Cooking, Following Up Huge Successes and Writing a Second Book , an Interview with Julia Busuttil Nishimura
When Julia Busuttil Nishimura released her debut book, Ostro, she didn’t expect to win acclaim from famous food personalities like Jamie Oliver and Nigella Lawson as well as be short-listed for the 2018 ABIA ‘Illustrated Book of the Year’ and Gourmet Traveller’s ‘Best Food Books for 2017.’ Four years later, she is now preparing for the release of her second highly-anticipated cookbook, A Year of Simple Family Food. In this lovely interview with Julia, learn more about the success of Ostro, her life before becoming a cook and an author and how she runs her business today.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Introducing Julia Busuttil Nishimura [1:54]
Catching Up [3:57]
How Julia Started Out As a Teacher [7:56]
How Her Upbringing Influenced Her Career as a Cook and an Author [10:44]
Why She Didn't Pursue A Food Career Immediately [14:03]
How Long It Took Julia to Focus on Being a Cookbook Author [16:05]
What are Julia's Tips on Taking Beautiful Shots for Food [17:37]
How She Got Famous Food Personalities Give Testimonials to Her Book [19:33]
What Other Things/Factors Helped Her In Building Her Business [23:13]
What Particular Business Element Did She Need To Upskill On [25:07]
What Helped Her Push Through Doing An Instagram Live and Being More Active in Social Media [26:16]
What She Felt Before Releasing Her First Book [28:42]
Her Advice For Her Younger Self [34:05]
A Year of Simple Family Food Release [36:50]
Where Does Ostro Come From? [37:42]
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Transcript:
How are you feeling about this year? How has COVID made an impact on your life and your business?
Totally. I mean, you know, in some ways it's not that it's any good time for a global pandemic. You know, I just had a baby last January, and so I kind of had put aside almost the first half of [inaudible 5:38] anyway. I was like, I’m going to take some time off. My book will be coming out in May. But I can definitely work around it. And then this all happened and kind of threw everything up in the air. And I suppose on one side, I mean, the way I'm trying to put my spin on it to stay positive throughout this whole thing is that it's been a really nice time to just kind of extend that maternity leave, I suppose, and slow down a little bit more. I think going on a book tour with a three month old was a silly idea.
So, in a way, it's been a blessing in disguise, in some regards but I think, on the other hand, my partner’s a chef, he works in a cafe that kind of came to an abrupt halt last month. And we kind of had to reassess our trajectory. I suppose, I teach pasta classes as well, which I had to finish, moved that to October just to be safe because I felt like I couldn't really just put them amongst the way. It was really unfolding very quickly. So, yeah, you know, overall, I work from home. Usually I write recipes. It's not really something that I need to go anywhere to do. Yeah. In one way, it’s been good, but it’s been hard as well. Like the things that you love to do and that kind of affects how productive you are. Seeing friends, going out to dinner, relaxing. That kind of affects productivity when you can't do all those things, I think.
A lot of people know you from Ostro, from your website, your blog, your Instagram and all of the different recipes that you share - You know, ABC Life and The Design Files and other places. And of course, your amazing book. But you actually start out with a career in this space. Is that right? You started out as a teacher.
That's right. Yes. So, I mean, I always have cooked and I've always loved food. It's always been something that I, you know, I found a lot of joy in.
And I you know, I had recipe books already. I had been collecting recipe books since I was 16. That's what I would ask my mom to buy. I love cooking and I studied it all in high school. Up to U12. And then when I finished U12, my plan was to go and study commercial cookery at Tife (8:26) or at university. Do kind of like a hospitality course. And then I don't know what happened.
I just changed. I guess when my score came out, I guess I was like, oh, there's always other options, actually, that I didn't know it existed or I didn't really think was available to me. And I end up doing an arts degree. So I studied at Melbourne University. I did an arts degree in politics and Italian. So I was like, “Oh, maybe I should work in an NGO (8:58).” My family have always been quite politically active and very hot-blooded conversations around the table. And I always loved politics and learning about international studies and things like that. So I did that and I did Italian as well as part of my arts degree.
And throughout that study, I would go to Italy once a year to kind of like improve my Italian plus I ate a lot of pasta. And so, you know, I go back and forth to Italy and I got to the end of my arts degree and I kind of still didn’t know what I wanted to do. Sometimes you still kind of start really have a solid plan. It's really amazing things you learn, but it's not really like a vocation or anything like that.
… It was enriching, but I still didn't really have a direction. And so I guess my plan was to go to Italy. I was in love with Italy, moved to Italy and teach English. That was kind of my escape route and my way that I could live in Italy and work. But then I was working in a school at the time, like in after care, an Italian teacher said, like, “Why don’t you get trained and do your teaching here?” And I ended up doing that. Yes, I did my master's in teaching. And then I ended up teaching Italian primary school for four or five years – off and on, had a baby in between. Started writing during that time and that's when it kind of started kicking off my career fruit.
What was your upbringing like? Like you said before, obviously your parents and your family had passionate debates or conversations. And one thing I actually should point out is you're not Italian. But I think it's very easy to maybe mix up because you've got this really strong tie with Italy and Australia. But you’re Maltese, is that correct?
Yeah, my parents are Maltese.
And what was that upbringing like? Did your parents just love food? The interest that you have with cooking and with writing recipes, is that something that was just ingrained because of your parents influence? How do you think your upbringing kind of influenced this career that you have now with cooking?
It's interesting, like a big part of Maltese culture is very similar in a lot of ways with Italian culture. Food is really central. Family is really central. And whenever you do have a family gathering, food is involved. And there are always big family gatherings. So I was always around people cooking and food. But I wouldn't say that, especially my immediate family, we were particularly very food-centred family, where it was kind of like how I would describe us now. Food was important, but mostly it was to feed us. I wouldn't say that my family were the biggest influences on food. But we still did things I look back on now and I probably didn't think anything at the time, like we would make our own ricotta, which I know people are probably like, “Oh, yeah, right. You were really into food.” We made our in ricotta and we would grow broad beans. And then I have some really strong memories associated with food. But I probably wasn't until I was a little bit older that it really kind of took off in that sense. But my family was a migrant family. It was like, work hard, do your best, kind of “do the way that we did” in a way. You really had to kind of outdo that legacy. There's a lot of pressure to do the right thing.
Why do you think you didn't go straight into making the food career work from the get go? Like if you had these cookbooks at 16 and you were obviously really interested in that, was it because you didn't think of that as like a business as such, or was it because you wanted to just build that organically? Or was it like you said, you know, I might need to have a career and stability with an income that's constantly coming, you know? What do you think was the main reason that you went into teaching?
You know, I think there was definitely pressure to kind of go to university. Both my parents didn't go to university and I definitely felt a bit of pressure in that sense. But also I had an overarching sense of not really knowing what I wanted to do. And universities seemed like a good option. My sister had done that. So I was like, “Oh, I could just do that, too.”
And I think for me, going into food or cooking or whatever in that industry, it just seems like a linear path. Like, you become a chef or you're not in the industry. The cookbooks I had were, you know, professional chefs and so were the people who had restaurants. The people you bought books from were people like Jamie Oliver and Stephanie Alexander who were trained chefs. I wasn't even in the realm that I would one day write a cookbook. You know, I thought I would do a cookery and I'd get an apprenticeship and I'd be a chef, which began, I just think I could handle pressure.
What do you call yourself? A cook? An author.? I mean, you're all sorts of things.
I guess I'd say cookbook author and then people can see that I can cook.
How long was it until you were able to stop teaching completely and just work on this?
It's actually only been, I would say, a year and a half ago. I stopped teaching fully a year and a half to two years ago. So, yeah, my first book’s been out for a year. Once I did the tour I kind of like had to go back to teaching. Yeah. It's taken, you know, a really good chunk of time to build that up and to feel like I can fully kind of jump in and do that.
Have you got any tips for other people who are looking for beautiful shots?
You know, I always have loved photography and I had you know, I did have like a manual SLR camera that I brought around with me in Europe when I was 18 and took photos and things like that. But, you know, I, I think it's just been a learning curve and learning by mistake and reading and seeing what other people are doing. Because my Instagram six or seven weeks ago doesn't look like it does now. You know, I think there's this kind of expectation that when you start something, you have to hit the nail on the head straight away. And it just doesn't really happen like that. Like cooking is the same.
If I write a book six years ago, it just wouldn't be the same as Ostro. I've learned so much everyday - through osmosis, through reading and. But now I do feel pretty comfortable taking photos, which is great because it is such a big part of my work. Like a lot of it is just my iPhone. But if I'm working for a client and there’s no budget for a photographer, which often there isn't, you know, I just quickly snap them which is good. And I think the main tip is just natural light – natural light, with ceramics, don’t overthink it. I think you want to see the food and the texture and the natural colours.
I've seen that Jamie Oliver and all these big cooks have given testimonials for your book. How did that happen? And where were you when you found out that they endorsed your book?
When I got the book deal hostelry, my publishers took a big leap of faith with me, because I didn't have a huge social media following. It was fine for me. But yeah, I didn't really have like a proven track record of, you know, of a fellowship in a way. And it took a big risk. And so to have people like Jamie and Nigella notice it and say nice things about it was everything, because they are the kinds of people that I looked up to when I was younger and I was like a younger cook. And, you know, who doesn't want Jamie Oliver to say that it's like a beautiful book I think, you know, he's lovely. And we actually have a mutual friend. And he passed my book on to him and that was really great. And he messaged me. I probably jumped up and down.
Do you ever have eggs and toast just like the rest of us for dinner?
For dinner? I don’t have eggs and toast. I do have eggs and soldiers in the mornings.
But, you know, I think for us, our cooking is super fun and it's kind of rare when I feel like I can’t be bothered cooking or at least one of us can't be bothered. You know, we both love cooking. We don't always foresee ourselves like we must make a gourmet dinner every night. It's just like, you know, I would like pasta with a simple canned tomato sauce still to me feels like luxurious. I love simple food. Like, I just could eat that kind of food.
But have there been other things that helped you a lot with building this business? So like, any mentors or any kind of tactics that you've done? Obviously the book was a huge one, but what other things have helped you build this business?
I think, honestly, my biggest thing that's helped me build my business is to be like authentic and that word gets used a lot. But I feel with all of my work and all of my interactions, I'm really genuine. And I think that does reflect my brand, I guess. And I think that has you know, I had a really positive effect on making connections like a non-tacky networking kind of thing. I think that's kind of my backbone of my business is, you know, that kind of authenticity. Every day there's something that I have to, like, learn how to do or ask someone like, “Oh, what did you do for these?” Having that kind of ability to ask for help when you need it and be vulnerable is really important because otherwise you don’t improve.
Has there been anything you need to upskill on?
I definitely need to upskill my accounting. Also, I think I built my website with a template and with the help of the actual platform I was using. But, you know, I really had to teach myself how to how to build a website, which I just I don't have the funds to kind of pay a huge amount of money for those kind of things. Even today, I did my first Instagram live, which probably seems really simple, but, you know, it was like researching which tripod I should get. And I think every day, I mean, my kind of job where it changes so often. I have to teach myself all kinds of things.
Have you got any tips for people like when you did the Instagram live, was there anything that you just helped you push through to actually do it?
I try not to spend so much time on social but I made a concerted effort to watch all these lives in the past week. It made me feel kind of better knowing how they should run. I suppose I think the thing is when it's unknown, it's kind of scary. And so you just kind of familiarising myself, trying to learn. I just did some Google-ing and a lot of self talk. My husband keeps supporting me, being like, “You will be fine.”
In your cookbook and cooking, it's such an intimate thing and you've got stories in Australia that your first book and you've got a lot about your family and you share a lot on social media. But with the actual first book, did you feel nervous before it came out? And how did you kind of deal with that? Like this is gonna go out to the world.
Yeah, definitely. I think on one hand, I'm more nervous this time, actually, the second time around. Because I think the first time, I didn't really have any expectations. I didn't expect to be in Gourmet Travels, which is the kind of magazine I've been writing since I was a kid and went to Ostro and the next step after Ostro, I was just over the moon. I was like, OK, my book doesn't need to come out now but I’m so happy. But I had no expectations. Everything was like a huge milestone for me. Whereas, yeah, second time around I feel so much more nervous because I feel it was a lot of pressure and expectations because, you know, people have invited Australians to their homes and they've been cooking from it. Writing a recipe book, people put a lot of trust in you that the food is delicious. It works. It looks like the picture. You know, it's a huge undertaking. And I think, yeah, I feel a lot more nervous this time, actually.
What are you doing right now? Then I guess because you're right in that space feeling nervous. So are there things you tell yourself right now to help you?
Well, I mean, a big part of writing a book, which is what I love as well is it's so different to online. It's done. You can't you can't change anything. So, you know, however it is, it is. And, you know, I'm human. Like, if I you know, you get worried that you're going to pick up a mistake, like after it’s gone. And I guess I just keep telling myself how I would talk to friends, because I know if, you know, if I had a friend’s cookbook and there was a little mistake, like, it wouldn't bother me at all. You know, we’re really hard on ourselves. And, yeah, trying to be kind. Kinder to myself, too. It's working a lot of self-talk, which is great.
Were there any moments along the way while writing the book, when you felt super doubtful or you felt a lot of fear creeping? Like it's not gonna sell or even in your pasta classes or other things that you've done. Have there been moments when it's been like, oh, God, what am I doing?
All the time. I’m quite an anxious person. I think things a lot. And I kind of go to, like, tease out all the things that could go wrong. It’s not a good mindset. I try not to do it, but I know that it does. Like with my book, you know, my first book, I was like, oh, what if no one buys it? And, you know, it was great because it did exceed my expectations. And so did my publisher’s. Yeah. I think, you know, before class, I do get nervous and most of the time, like 99% of the time before any of these things. It's just a good nervous energy, which I think is important. And I just always remind myself like being nervous or doubtful means I care. You know, I mean, I've put a lot of thought into it. It's really important to me. I just try to normalise fear. You know, I think it's like, what's a motherhood, like you find yourself doubting, you know, things that you normally thought you were capable at all when you have a baby and you kind of just have to push aside. But like, I just kind of accept that. And I tell myself that I care.
Is there one thing that you would have done differently if you were starting out now or something that you would have told your younger self?
I don't think you would have done anything differently because it has happened so organically. And I think that I've made the right decision. Like all the way through. Like I just trusted my gut. I think that's the only thing you can do when you're a small business. You really have to trust your gut a lot of the time because you don't have anything to go on. So I think it would just be believing yourself. And also just I think the path isn't a straight path and you're not going to be doing the same things ever and those opportunities. Yeah, I think there’s a lot of opportunities at every corner. I think that's a big thing that I've learned in my industry that you really don't know where an opportunity will lie. Like, I went to Sydney for a lunch and I happened to meet an editor there. And then they got me like a regular column in a magazine just from that lunch like a year prior. I just think, yeah, the world so amazing and the people you meet.
Are there any other tech tools or platforms or things like that you couldn't live without when you're running your business?
Instagram obviously is my biggest platform, but my website is integral, It kind of is. I think you said actually don't have all of your things on something that can disappear. Like ifsomething happened to my Instagram, I can't really put all my eggs in one basket, which I do in a way. My website is really integral, like it’s where I have my classes. We used to have an online shop. We used to import things from Japan like kitchen household items. We kind of stopped that when we had Harry, but I actually get to start doing that again. So that's going to be an integral part of having the shop again online.
What is next for you? So it's super exciting that your book is coming out August 25th. Is that correct?
Yes. August 25th. That’s right.
And can people pre-order that before August 25th?
Yes. So it's available for pre-order at all good bookstores online.
Where can people connect with you? So if they've listened to this and they're like, oh, I just need to tell her that I loved when she said this thing, where’s the best place for them to get in touch with you, Julia?
So, over on Instagram, it’s @juliaostro or at my website - it's julia-ostro.com. There's an email form there if you want to send an email.
Can I ask one more question? Where does Ostro come from?
So Ostro is the name of the southern wind in Italy. One of the southern winds.
So, in Italy, they all kind of have names for the winds, which I thought was really beautiful when I was in Italy with the twelve-year old who I was nannying, she would just casually say, “oh, that's the Ostro wind. It was like, “oh my God, you're so clever. You're twelve. You know the names of the winds.” Anyway, Ostro is the name of the Mediterranean wind and my family is from Malta in the Mediterranean. And it's also the etymology – Ostro, Australia. Those were the links. So that's the name of my blog. And then the name of my book, which I'm glad because it wasn't supposed to be called Ostro, but I'm glad I pushed for it.
You can connect with Julia over at her website, which she built all by herself - julia-ostro.com. Or you can jump on and join thousands following her over on Instagram via @juliaostro
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